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Help phase out Mt. Gox.
Ask the main price charts to stop showing Mt. Gox as the default chart, and ask those only showing Mt. Gox to add other exchanges. If Mt. Gox is no longer seen as the default exchange, we become less reliant on them. Contact pages for the price charts: -Bitcoinity -Bitcoincharts: [email protected] -The Clarkmoodie one is run by Clark of Bitcointalk. He can be contacted here, or alternatively, on the forum. -Blockchain, which only shows Mt Gox, can be contacted here. -Listen to Bitcoin can be contacted at "max at listentobitcoin.com". -If you're Dutch, contact Bitonic, and ask them to peg themselves to another exchange, rather than Mt. Gox. -Please add any that I forgot in the comment section, and I'll add them here. It may also be useful for you to have a look at this list of alternative exchanges.
Stop bitching about gox-lag and do something. Leave them.
There have been several posts about alternate exchanges, give them your business instead. Unless you are taking advantage of the lag and winning, go elsewhere. "But nobody uses them! " Nobody uses bitcoin either. ....
MtGox has been a great driver for Bitcoin in the past, but it has also been a show stopper in the more recent past. Since April, these have been the Bitcoin headlines caused by MtGox in the press: Failing under DDOS, failing under too much interest and demand, blocking the possibility to exit the market while the price is plummeting, blocking the possibility to take out cash, wrong paperwork, blocked accounts by the feds. The problem is, the general public rarely differentiates between Bitcoin and the Bitcoin infrastrucure (like exchanges etc.) when these headlines are presented. In general, these are headlines that would make customers of a bank take their money somewhere else. We have to realize that the trust of mainstream in cryptography will not suffice for bitcoin. It needs to be trust in the whole bitcoin economy and infrastructure. This includes security, the possibility to enter and exit the market at will, many businesses accepting it etc. This is what we are all going for, and we're trying hard to make it happen. But we need to realize that MtGox has done nothing but damage the trust in these critical aspects of bitcoin for the last couple of months. Bitcoin is technologically sound, but it does not yet have the trust of the masses. It is decentralized technologically, but centralized economically. So why do we accept MtGox to be the Single Point of Failure (with over 60% of all transaction volume) to a system without single points of failure? We're shooting ourselves in the knee by keeping our money in MtGox. Take your money out. If you really want to see your money in an exchange, then put it in another trustworthy one. Decentralize the economy of Bitcoin, for God's sake. Make it profitable for other exchanges to run, and they will grow and even more exchanges will appear. Make it so that if MtGox fucks up once again, it won't be difficult to just say 'bye' and move to another exchange. Make MtGox have to fight for their monopolist role. As of now, we're just giving them our money on a silver plate, and they don't seem to put effort in it, they take it for granted. Move your Bitcoins out of MtGox, support other exchanges. Edit: JeanBono suggests differentiating properties for those who want to compare exchanges: time to get cash in/out, fees (including bank fees) and trustworthiness of the exchange.
Hi! I'm your next market. Here's why you scare me.
I believe I represent the next slice of the market for bitcoin. I'm 30-something, male, liberal, and tech savvy by broad societal standards (I rooted my android phone and had ubuntu installed on a laptop at some point). But I'm not a crypto-geek, I'm not a raging libertarian, and I don't do drugs. I dialed up bulletin board systems (BBSs) back in the days before the internet, and bitcoin feels a bit like that did for me - something that seems like it could be really big but still somehow missing its potential. Here's the problem. I haven't bought any bitcoins. Here's why:
The slew of posts talking about "securing your wallet". A laptop with no hard drive? Live linux installs? "Disable all internet connections!" etc. Not to mentioin the stories that pop up of people "missing" bitcoins. I get it - online wallet's are not as secure but the work that goes into having a secure wallet on my deskstop seems to daunting. Solution: An online wallet with some guarantees.
I can't spend it. I don't want to buy drugs. Every other place I can use bitcoin just instantly exchanges it for dollars. If that's the case, I'll just spend dollars. Yes, I get the anonymity thing - but frankly if I'm buying something and having it sent to my house I'm not anonymous anyway. Solution: make bitcoin purchases "special". Add some value to it that dollars don't have. Either a discount, or a "locked in" price or action figure. Something.
Complexity of purchase. I figured I'd buy a few bitcoins to play around with. So far, I tried to open an account with Mt. Gox (still waiting verification) coinbase (couldn't buy coins) and now campbx (waiting for my dwolla transfer to go through). For a guy like me, going to the bank with cash in hand is not a solution - I need to be able to buy these things from my home and with the speed I'm accustomed to. Solution? Coinbase does it right (but verification needs to be faster), but they don't have the depth to sell. Someone needs to fill this void.
Complexity of the system: Wait. There is my wallet, then there are "change wallets" that somehow live within my wallet? I can increase transaction fee to speed up transfer? I have seen so many posts that say "If you can't understand it, don't buy it". This is exactly the wrong mentality to bring something like this mainstream. It needs to be dead simple. Idiot proof.
Fix these things, and bitcoin can go mainstream. If not - I think we have another Prodigy (c) on our hands. tl/dr: I'm a yuppie. Bitcoin is scary.
I'm sure you've all noticed that the price on various exchanges (campbx, btce, etc.) is a lot lower than that on Mt. Gox (~850 vs ~1000). People are always asking "Why isn't anyone arbitraging that huge price gap?" and the answer is usually that it's hard to get fiat out of Mt. Gox. The thing is, bitcoin payment services like bitpay use an averaged value for bitcoin ($1000 at the moment) for determining prices in bitcoins when you buy stuff online. So, if you are scared to arbitrage between exchanges, what you can do is buy cheap bitcoins on campbx or btce, buy something on gyft or whatever (how about an amazon gift card), and enjoy a cool 10% discount for paying in BTC. This is good for many reasons:
You are paying for things with bitcoins. Flow of currency is a good indicator of a healthy market.
You are helping to balance the exchange rate between exchanges
BitPay has the volume to move money in and out of exchanges quickly and likely sells to the exchange with the highest price, so you aren't harming them either. Also, both BitPay and Gyft are for profit and want you to use them. It doesn't matter to them where you bought your bitcoins.
I'm a day trader who wants to start trading Bitcoin. Which trading platform should I start with?
I previously posted this here, but I figured I'd ask /BitcoinMarkets for their opinion. I'm building a trading system, and I'm looking for a secure, reliable platform for trading between BTC and USD. Ideally, they'd have market and order book data, an API for automated trading, quick execution, and support for medium- to high-frequency trading strategies. I've seen lots of names like Coinbase, MtGox, Bitstamp, CampBX, Tradehill, and Coinsetter, but I'm unsure which is popular with the serious traders. Which trading platform should I start with? Thanks!
Bitcoin needs a futures market just as much as it needs a distributed exchange
TLDabstract: merchants need a way to hedge bitcoin inventory to avoid having to endlessly transact tiny amounts sent by customers to avoid the volatile exchange rate. This solution already exists, it's called a futures contract. I think this is just as important as all the concerns over the quality of the currency exchange we now have. OK here's a quick overview of the idea of a futures market for those not in the know; if you are, just skip down a couple of paragraphs. I should preface all this by saying I am not an expert in futures, so if anyone wants to correct any details that's great. Futures markets originated as a solution for sellers of agricultural produce, e.g. corn. First, what problem are futures designed to solve: if you are a producer of corn (farmer), you can encounter the following scenario. In year 1, you plant X acres and find that the market price is very high, $Y, when you go to sell your corn at the market (due to some unexpected bad weather). You're happy because you make a good profit that year. Next year, you plant more crops, requiring more investment, but that's fine, because the profits will be good. Unfortunately due to unexpectedly huge supply and surprisingly little bad weather (weather is always a total wildcard, even today we can't predict it more than a few days out), the price is now $Y/2 and we already spent, say, an extra $Y/4 this year on extra planting 2X crops(OK, I don't know about farming, so sue me). You lose a ton of money. Maybe if you were very careful, you can anticipate this kind of swing in fortunes, but that's really tough to do. So there's the problem. What's the idea of futures? It's simply this: at the very time you decide how much crop to plant, LOCK IN the CURRENT BEST GUESS of the what the price of the corn will be when you deliver it to market. If the price then soars, it's true you've lost out on an opportunity to make a bundle, but equally if the price plummets, you still got a decent price, so you have avoided trouble. Notice how in this way it feels a bit similar to insurance, but also notice that it absolutely is not the same structure as an insurance contract, which has a completely asymmetric payoff. Futures are more like direct buying and selling, with a time offset, but insurance (and lotteries, and options) have an additional component of asymmetry (big potential reward and low potential loss or vice versa, with compensating probabilities). So after the intro, why do I say this is very important? Because the problem faced by the online merchant currently thinking about offering the bitcoin payment method is basically exactly the same, just with one additional layer. Merchant M wants to sell widget W to the general public over the internet, but he doesn't want to pay bank/paypal etc. fees. Customer C wants very much to buy W from M, and would prefer the elegance of bitcoin payment also. M investigates and finds that he can try to remove the volatility of bitcoin from the equation by using a payment processor like bitpay so the price is always effectively in the more stable USD (or EUR or whatever). But M plans on having thousands of customers and perhaps 10s or 100s of transactions each day. He thinks a little and realises that bitpay is not enough. Each day he will be storing an INVENTORY of bitcoins. He can't immediately convert all his bitcoins received to USD, not just because exchanges are flaky but because to do that quickly will involve paying exchange rate spreads and transaction fees. To fulfil the promise of bitcoins - very low cost monetary exchange over the internet - he needs to keep his BTC-USD transfers to a reasonably low frequency. But keeping an inventory of BTC exposes him to large fluctuations in the value of BTC over time. And he doesn't want that because his business is selling Ws, not currency speculation. The BTC/fiat futures contract solves that problem for him in exactly the same way as the Corn/fiat futures contract (which you can find today on CME under code ZC IIRC) does for farmers. He goes out and sells X units of BTC/USD (not spot, not actually selling BTC, but selling the futures contract), expiring in 1 month let's say, where X is his estimate of his built up inventory. The contract says that the seller is obliged to deliver to the owner, on the date of expiration, the denoted amount of bitcoins for USD at the agreed price. Here is a concrete example in case it isn't clear: M expects to receive 1000 bitcoins from customers over the next month. Today is 1 May and he therefore sells 1000 units of the BTCUSD contract expiring 31 May. Note that the price of that contract may turn out to be a little different than the current "spot" (actual) price of the bitcoins bought RIGHT NOW at an exchange (this differs for different futures markets, it would have to be thought about for BTC, I guess there may be no difference at all actually). The important point is that by doing this he is not speculating on BTC prices - just the opposite, he's hedging them; if BTC goes up during the month, he loses money on his futures contract, but he gains just as much on his inventory. If BTC goes down, vice versa. Last, very important point: all of this DOES require functional BTC/USD exchange (it can still be a bit laggy, slow and even can be a bit expensive in transaction fees - that's OK, because this model reduces the frequency of transactions dramatically). But we still need exchange prices to set as a REFERENCE price for the expiration of the futures contract. E.g. the futures contract will be settled on May 31 00:00:00 USING THE BEST BID/OFFER available from the following list of exchanges: MtGox, bitstamp, campbx etc. (the wording can vary according to what people agree on). So finally I agree that distributed exchange is really necessary - let's not forget that something very similar already exists in the stock market, where a bunch of different exchanges are competing in a quasi-free market for order flow (heck, they sometimes even PAY traders to make orders, i.e. negative transaction costs...). But good exchanges will not solve the merchants problem. He needs to hedge.
Here's how you use ledger to account for Bitcoin transactions
I hear people wanting to use GnuTrash to account for their Bitcoins. That's blah. Even changing the source code to support Bitcoin still does not give you enough precision. And it's so, so hard to use -- for example, its multicurrency support is very cumbersome, and data entry is needlessly complicated as well. Ledger's much more straightforward. This is going to be a bare bones example, which assumes you already have ledger installed. Check the ledger docs for more. Create a file and call it "ledger.dat". Put this in there:
Now, to see the real value, add this line to the file at the end:
P 2012/12/19 20:10:25 BTC $13.61896000
Now ledger knows the latest price. You can script price quotes too -- here's an example working script that works with a separate prices database passed to the --prices-db command line option. For this example we'll just add the price directly to the ledger file. OK, now that you have the price, you can ask for the current value of your stuff:
ledger reg can also accept -G and -B and -V to transform figures to the gain, basis and current value costs. Highly useful! There's more parameters to filter by periods of time, and graphing functionality aswell. Always check the ledger manual (on the website) for more info! Enjoy!
-cashintocoins has been severely lagging since there's much more money being requested than there is in stock -i don't have a credit card and will never have a credit card so i can't do instant buy from Coinbase, and i'm not gonna wait 4 days if they're gonna lock in the price instead of just letting me transfer money and THEN buy the coins after those 4 days, and have the amount of bitcoins that i'm actually paying for at the moment i buy them -i'm never gonna use localbitcoins, prices are waaayyy too high -i don't have a utility bill so no mtgox -bitstamp is taking forever to verify me -okpay won't let me get verified since i'm from the US -24change seems sketch because liqpay seems sketch and i hear a lot of US transactions don't go through -virwox has a tiny maximum limit and i'm not even sure if they do US credit/debit cards -campbx hasn't rolled out bank transfers yet -coinmkt hasn't either SO WHAT THE HECK CAN I USE???
Today is the 1 year anniversary of when I escaped Gox.
It's a slow day in the market, and so I was reflecting on my bitcoin history. Thought I'd share my humble tale. I had initially discovered BTC in 2011 and bought 3 coins for $50 total and mined a few mBits a day on my GPU for several months. I hodled before it was a thing, and stopped caring when the price dipped under $10. My GPU went back to working for BOINC, folding proteins, sifting SETI data. I nearly forgot about bitcoin... ah those days. Anyone have a time machine? Then the April bubble grew and popped catching my bitcoin attention once again. My coins grew in value to what seemed at the time an unbelievable level, all while I had no idea. Salivating, I blindly traded myself up into quite a few more coins over the summer, and lost some, yet still maintained a healthy positive balance. "Hell, why didn't I set up an array of GPUs like that guy I saw in youtube!?" My hastily bought jalapenos finally shipped and I mined a few more meager mBits. Most of my coins were on Gox and CampBX where I would buy new coins directly. I eventually left CampBX and fully returned to Gox for the trading volume. When the December bubble cracked, I traded myself into more coins with some novice skill not without a minor blunder or two. As January 2014 rolled in the warning signs at Gox started to become more apparent. For several months people had been mumbling about problems at Gox but I largely ignored them. When the price began diverging, greed blinded me from the reality that something must terribly wrong at Gox. I was simply more excited that my Gox coins were worth more than everywhere else! 1 year ago I was at a rodeo of all places, and the price was climbing, chiming alerts on my phone as horses and cows ran about in the dirt. I got the ugly sensation that such a rise in price on Gox was artificial. Things reeked and it wasn't the manure. And so upon getting home I researched other exchanges, made an account at Bitstamp, withdrew from Gox, and ate what felt like an enormous paper loss in doing so. But I felt safe. It was possibly the first rational un-greed-cluttered decision I made with bitcoin. Sure enough only weeks later... well you all know what happened next. I was not lucky to get out of Gox, I made a careful rational decision about risk. I had stupidly ignored the warning signs for months until the very last days. On paper I lost a lot of unrealized gains in the move to stamp, but the Gox value was obviously not true. I know many of you did not escape Gox, either partially or entirely. I could have been one of you too if I had not stopped to rationally consider the state of things 1 year ago today. Be aware of what is going on if you can. Have back up plans for your coins and money. I feel those scars Gox left are still lingering about here in our bear market today. It may be that we all goxxed ourselves last year. Let us be 'gentlemen'. Let's build this thing together and not destroy it by acting foolishly with blind greed. tl;dr: escaping gox was neither luck nor chance, but a rational choice about risk and dealing with greed.
My first two days using Bitcoin -- Warning to new Coinbase users
After waiting for 5 days, yesterday I finally got my Coinbase account verified to my bank account. There is a limit for new users of only being able to 10 coins a day. That was fine with me as 10 coins was roughly what I wanted to buy on my first day. However, just to be cautious I decided to just buy one coin first to test things out. There is another limit for first time users which is that Bitcoin purchases are held in a "pending" mode for seven days and one cannot trade them until that is over. I believe I read somewhere this is some kind of anti-fraudulence measure. The thing I did not know (and I am pretty sure was not stated anywhere) is that although the buy-coins page said I could buy nine more coins that day, there is a further restriction that one cannot but any more coins until the first ever transaction completes. So even though I started the day thinking one could buy 70 coins in the first week, one can only buy 10, and in my case only one. All this has been pretty frustrating as I have seen the price jump from $260 to past $336 in the interviewing period. So be warned: get your full first day's allocation in one go on your first transaction. I did think this might be a bug in their system (like the one that told me my bank account was linked a day before it was actually linked), and so I sent them an email about this, but after 28 hours I have still not received a response; so as yet I do not know for sure. Nevertheless this has prompted me to send CampBX check for $10,000 by express mail in the hops that I might have better luck with their system.
Why is the price on MtGox and CampBX so different?
http://bitcoinity.org/markets I use CampBX to trade because MtGox is the biggest joke right now. It's a one-way street, you can't withdraw. Even if you could, it would take a month or whatever. Fucking insane. I don't understand why anyone still uses them. So I've been using CampBX for a few months, and it's great. But I fail to understand why the price is always so much lower. It doesn't make much sense to me. I know the volume is lower on CampBX but that shouldn't equate to a ~$10 price difference at the moment. Thoughts?
Hi, I follow the price of BTC on a daily basis normally using 30 & 15 minute candles on live charts. Recently there seems to be a few new sources providing live (or nearly) market charts on bitcoin. I have made a list of all the ones that I know about, but wanted to know if there are any more out there? Please post any that I have not mentioned.
Hello guys, for the past few weeks I have been a bitcoin day trader. I work behind a computer at home, so staring at the charts all day has proven a fast way to pass time. I keep it on the micro-scale only selling off and buying small amounts (.5btc>) at a time, however I do it daily. Here is my strategy. I use the trading site CampBX (roughly 0.5% of the market in volume). I keep two real-time charts of mt gox (79% voulume), and CampBx(0.5% V). I wait until mtgox gets moderately lower than campBX, then sell. CamBX adjusts to mt gox, and when the two prices get relatively close to each other, I buy. The idea is to use mtgox as a predictor to the CampBX market. Any ideas, critiques, or strategies you guys use?
The frustration that it is to get fiat into any bitcoin exchange. help!
Hi there /Bitcoin, i'm venting today. My current location is the small island of Puerto Rico where I love to watch the bitcoin community and speculate how this can change our world. Ive been trying since 6 days ago to get fiat into my mtgox/campbx accounts and it is the most frustrating experience I have encountered, firstly Bitinstant is worthless to me, because although we do have CVS's here apparently there are none that accept zip zap or whatever and Bitinstant support was no help at all, secondly i'm trying to use Dwolla and it says i have to wait 1 week for my funds to enter my account, i think its because my bank is not well known. Fellow bitcoiners, is there any other way that you can think of so that I can get some BTC's into my wallet instantly? Now that the price is in my affordable range, (i only have a small amount of disposable funds to invest).
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